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Post by darthslater on Jun 20, 2010 7:56:37 GMT -5
Ok, this weeks pic is going to stir some things up, I am Darth after all, Black Brandywine...wow...There are ..tons of crosses with blacks and Brandywine just ask Keith Mueller!! Is there one out there that people have been raising for years? I dont know. I do know that Brandywine is used as mentioned in plenty of crosses. Question is, is there a "True Black Brandywine?
Maybe, I do know there are stable crosses that dont go by the name Black Brandywine. Feel free to comment!!!
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Post by spudleafwillie on Jun 20, 2010 10:18:04 GMT -5
dean, threre is a black tomato mamed "True black Brandywine that William Woys Weaver in PA developed it. heres the link for solana seeds in canads tha has it. scroll down to find it. solanaseeds.netfirms.com/TomatoesA-C.htmlTrue Black Brandywine: Seed saved over the years by William Woys Weaver of Pennsylvania. It was passed down to him from his Quaker grandfather’s collection dating back to the 1920s. As to its history, Will states “The ‘true’ Black Brandywine was bred sometime in the late 1920s by Dr. Harold E. Martin (1888-1959), a dentist turned plant breeder who is best remembered today for his famous pole lima with huge seeds.” Dr. Martin lived in Westtown, PA, only a few miles from the Weavers. This great-tasting tomato is extra large in size and full of the deep, earthy and sweet flavor that has made blackish-purple tomatoes so popular. Some fruits tend to crack, but the yield is heavy, and the plants are vigorous and do well in the hot summer. Indeterminate. I grew TBB a few years ago and it is a very,very good one !! Heres another good link for heirloom tomato descriptions and history www.thienemans.com/CCorner/?p=41 |
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PVP
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Post by PVP on Jun 20, 2010 12:03:48 GMT -5
I've grown True Black Brandywine from a plant that Gary Millwood sent me in the mail. He started it from seed sent to him by William Weaver, I think he said. This was the year before Baker Creek offered it in their catalog.
I've also grown Black Brandywine that came from Tomato Growers Supply via Bully in Detroit. It was regular leaf and pretty much an average tomato with no outstanding qualities.
On the other hand, True Black Brandywine was a very nice potato leaf tomato with better shape, better yield, much better flavor and a nice shape.
What intrigues me about Woy's True Black Brandywine is his claim that it was bred using Fegee Improved Beefsteak, an old maroon, regular leaf tomato variety from Livingston that is said to be extinct. Personally, I think there's a chance that Fegee Improved lives on in several tomatoes we grow today under various names.
Peace, PV
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Post by darthslater on Jun 20, 2010 23:07:57 GMT -5
Spud brought up a good point about dating the TOW....so...I dated it!!!
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jcm05
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Post by jcm05 on Jun 21, 2010 6:36:27 GMT -5
I grew Black Brandywine in 08 and was not impressed.
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Post by bluelacedredhead on Jun 21, 2010 9:05:20 GMT -5
Fegee Improved Beefsteak, an old maroon, regular leaf tomato variety from Livingston that is said to be extinct. Personally, I think there's a chance that Fegee Improved lives on in several tomatoes we grow today under various names. Peace, PV The heirloom catalogue section of idig states that Fegee was a Pink variety. And none better for making ketchup  The improved version was maroon? |
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PVP
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Post by PVP on Jun 21, 2010 11:25:30 GMT -5
Fegee Improved Beefsteak, an old maroon, regular leaf tomato variety from Livingston that is said to be extinct. Personally, I think there's a chance that Fegee Improved lives on in several tomatoes we grow today under various names. Peace, PV The heirloom catalogue section of idig states that Fegee was a Pink variety. The improved version was maroon? Okay, I was going on memory. Apparently it was spelled "Fejee" and possibly known only as Fejee Improved. Since you referred to Baker Creek, so will I with the first reference: gettle.org/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=756In that description of True Black Brandywine, Weaver says "According to my grandfather, Black Brandywine was a controlled cross between Brandywine and the original brown Beefsteak tomato otherwise known as Fejee Improved." I guess my description of Fejee as "maroon" is based on that color being basically a neutral color that to my eye comes off as brownish purple or purplish brown. Whereas with what I see as a truly pink tomato is pink, or a shade of brilliant red shining thru clear skin without any tint of green that might muddy the red/pink and make it appear a muddy neutral color that might better be described as brown or maroon. There are historic references to "maroon" as a color seen in tomatoes at least by one noted authority: www.tomatoville.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3870&d=1202689211[Landreth 1884] What's really interesting in that reference is that Landreth appends "known as Beef-Steak Tomato" to Fejee Improved! And that is the source of my previous comment "Personally, I think there's a chance that Fegee Improved lives on in several tomatoes we grow today under various names." Anyway, if William W. Weaver gives us fact, then at least True Black Brandywine is one tomato in which Fejee Improved lives on. Peace, PV Edit: Here is a link to an old gardening periodical where "T.G. of Vineland, New Jersey" reports in April 1868 that he had grown Fejee in previous years: books.google.com/books?id=ASwCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA115&lpg=PA115&dq=Landreth%27s+fejee&source=web&ots=DNqchlYQDo&sig=RSJfUe9BAfmcbDcGI1jbDIB1zWY#v=onepage&q=Landreth's%20fejee&f=false It's on page 115, right hand column. |
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Post by bluelacedredhead on Jun 21, 2010 11:31:10 GMT -5
Thanks PV. I understand now.  |
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PVP
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Post by PVP on Jun 21, 2010 11:40:29 GMT -5
Well, no big deal really. It's just that I find "purple" tomatoes very special because of their clear skin and the retained chlorophyll that gives the tomato that neutral color whatever we choose to call it ... maroon, brown, purple, black, etc.
I think they have a special flavor and I don't know if it's the chlorophyll or something genetically connected to the clear skin or a complex combination of influences. Some of the purple varieties are much better than others. A few of them are the best tomatoes I've ever eaten. I'd just like to understand better from where what I really enjoy about them originates.
Peace, PV
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bammer
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Post by bammer on Aug 29, 2010 19:54:10 GMT -5
I've grown " True Black Brandywine" for the past 2 years, seeds from Baker creek. I found it to be a good tasting dark that produced very good. some of the fruit I found some brown or different dark shade with some darker striping and saved seeds from those fruit and grew them out to find about the same as last years run, with some of the fruit having the different dark shade and some striping.
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tz
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Post by tz on Aug 29, 2010 21:25:23 GMT -5
What I find odd about the history is that, from what I understand W.W.W. has been a vegetable writer-historian for quite some time, and aquainted with Jere Gettle for more than a few years. Why did it take so long for this supertasting historical family heirloom to hit the market?
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jcm05
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Post by jcm05 on Aug 30, 2010 6:17:07 GMT -5
Why did it take so long for this supertasting historical family heirloom to hit the market?  Good question! |
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carolyn137
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Post by carolyn137 on Sept 26, 2010 9:48:11 GMT -5
What I find odd about the history is that, from what I understand W.W.W. has been a vegetable writer-historian for quite some time, and aquainted with Jere Gettle for more than a few years. Why did it take so long for this supertasting historical family heirloom to hit the market? Why did it take so long for WWW to introduce it? I'm not the only one who commented on that in the thread from Tville that was posted above. And yes, I know WWW well and he's an excellent authority on Food history in general, but his initial book on heirlooms was filled with wrong information. In the tomato section in particular he refers many times to Craig LeHoullier and myself, but never let us read what he said before the book was published. One of the errors that lives on was his saying that the variety White Queen was a Livingston variety, and despite pleas to Jere Gettle that lives on at the Baker Creek listing. Actually it was variety that first appeared in the 1941 Earl May catalog. All one has to do is to go to Victory Seeds and read the list of ALL of the Livingston varieties, since Mike Dunton has a special interest in them, and you won't find White Queen anywhere. Mike was here in the East a couple of weeks ago with his family where he attended a seed packaging conference at the USDA labs in Geneva, NY, and there were several side trips to the Bejo Seed trial gardens and also to trial gardens at Cornell in Ithaca. he made it an educational trip for his kids, and he's a history buff himself, so when they drove to Eastern Ny they went to the Saratoga Battlefield and then up to Fort Ticonderoga, and then stopped by to visit with me. So at least one person , well, two actually, know I'm for real, ;)b'c I met Glenn Drowns at SSE several years ago and now Mike here at home. Mike is a wonderful man with a tomato obsession and it was interesting to hear how he went from being an IP specialist to owning a seed site. Carolyn |
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Post by sunflowers on Oct 1, 2010 7:21:48 GMT -5
There is a long thread at TV from last winter all about how the Black Brandywine that TGS lists came about thru an accidental cross. The first couple of years it was offered it was PL and at least 1 other company also offered it as PL. I had seeds at that time but they ran out before I knew that the variety was unstable and further seeds from several sources are now RL. And dispite Sandhills listing of Black Brandywine as PL, what I got from them 2 years ago produced all RL plants.
This year a trader sent me seeds for the WWW "True Black Brandywine". Out of about 20 plants most were PL and brown/maroon, tho some fruit were quite small. A few plants were totally off type and discarded.
I have saved seeds from those true to type plants tho won't know til next year if they produce true to type as that variety seems to be rather unstable to say the best about it.
Carol
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bammer
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Post by bammer on Dec 4, 2010 9:32:26 GMT -5
Heres a pic of the TBB, it may be hard to see the striping on these fruits. I grew 20 plants in 09 and most fruits had no striping, but these had obvious dark thin stripes, I saved seed from these and grew them out in 2010 and came up about the same, some fruits had striping and most didn't. Attachments:
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