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Post by darthslater on Sept 25, 2010 23:50:06 GMT -5
Northern michigan, 35 miles south of Traverse city.
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tomc
Breeder in Training
Posts: 155
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Post by tomc on Sept 26, 2010 6:08:19 GMT -5
Northern michigan, 35 miles south of Traverse city. The next time your in Kalamazoo go to OIKOS Tree Crops, He's the closest I know of that has paw paw. I know its not that close, but my freind who spits out her seed and mails it-them to me, has already eaten her way through her crop.
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Post by starlight1153 on Oct 17, 2010 7:16:32 GMT -5
Ozarklady.... Just found this tread being new here. I am reading your posts and truly amazed. I think your the first person I have ever met who really gets out there and forages. That is so cool. What other things do you forge? Would love to learn more if your up to teaching and sharing.
I was talking with a friend the other day, who do to economy is having problems and we were discussing about how in old days before computers and internet and fast food and grocery stores that folks used to survive totally off the land. Told her I know there places where folks still don't have electricity and such and yet they mange to survive fine.
Had told her wish I knew of folks that new how to do that, that folks today could sure learn a lot, and then seen your post. : )
You happen to know anything about using Sassafras trees? I have several of them growing wild here. They usually pop up next to an existing tree. I have not seen then make a flower or a berry or anything, but they must do when I'm not looking as seedlings keep sprouting.
What do you harvest on the Sumac? I asked one time what these trees were I had and was told Sumac, but that they weren't the poisonous ones.
Have you ever made Hickory butter from the bark of the Shag Hickory tree or from the shells of Hickory nuts?
I have a bunch of Hickory trees here, forget off and what type, but have an elderly lady who comes every year to gather bags of the nuts. They harder than heck to crack open, but she patiently does. She uses the tiny meats to make cookies and cakes and breads with. She came back the one year for more, cuz she went out and came back and ha d found hubby ha d eaten all the nut meats she ha d prepared even before she could cook with them. She made him crack and did out the meats of the next batch by himself. : )
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Post by ozarklady on Oct 17, 2010 12:18:18 GMT -5
First things, first. Please don't make hickory butter out of bark! Hickory butter is just like peanut butter... you make it out of the nuts!
I taught my grandkids about hickory nuts, and have a huge tree by their busstop so now every morning they get on the bus with hickory nut breath! ha ha... They aren't so tough with a couple good rocks!
Sassafras, an awesome tree. In very early spring, just as the tiny leaves look like mouses ears, go harvest some leaves, then just bag them up and freeze them, or spread them and dehydrate them. This is the often missing item in filet gumbo soup. It is used to thicken up your soup and flavor it, so go easy on them until you get used to the flavor.
And the roots, are dug, just a few odd tips, and scrubbed up, then you make tea out of it. It tastes vaguely like rootbeer. And you can boil the same roots over and over again. I got some water kefir grains, and I plan to get some roots and make some sassafras sodas out of the roots and the kefir water. (Beware sassafras is listed as cancer causer, but not likely)
We have had electricity, about 8-10 years now. In 1984, we bought land too remote to get electricity, but moved there anyhow. I remember those years as an adventure in living off the land. My husband remembers them as eating bushes to survive! We lived there about 8-9 years. Then moved due to economy, even with your place paid for, and wild foods, with a growing family when the jobs dried up we just couldn't hold on.
So we moved to a rental, with all the conveniences, and hated it.
So we bought more land, again no electric, but it wasn't remote, just it was in a strip that had no power. It didn't concern us that much. Electricity is a convenience not a necessity.
Finally, the electric company marched down the road and we got electricity, now if only the water company would do that and we could quit hauling water. We have only hauled water since 1984, except for the one year of renting, and that water was so awful, we went back to hauling to get some decent water!
I haul water for 3 households at the present time! And yet, we all have a/c, crazy world huh?
And during all those years, amazingly, the telephone company would always run a land line to us, we never didn't have a telephone.
I got a good wild foods book, Billy Joe Tatum wrote it, and it was my right hand while learning about wild foods. Some taste great, and some must be an aquired taste. We still hate Lamb's Quarters, but other folks eat them.
My advice: Buy beans, rice, flour, sugar, coffee, and cooking oil; and then you can forage for all the trimmings to go with these! And these are cheap foods. I keep thinking about getting some raw wheat kernels and try making flour in my blender.
You can find: nuts, greens, fruits, berries, usable roots, and mushrooms. I love to fish and hunt also, so that helps in the protein department. We went fishing last Friday, had pretty good luck, and lots of fun. We caught rock bass, perch, walleye, and catfish on worms. I can the fish, for later eating. You can even eat the bones in my canned fish, just like from the store!
And I got my hunting license, a freezer full of those pesky squirrels that kept getting into my garden last year sounds good. And the deer that kept walking on my tobacco and leaving ticks all around, will make some good additions to boring meals!
I priced meat at the store, and said forget it. I turned the buck goat in with my milkers, so we will have kids in spring. Bought my hunting license, and am about to deal with the economy..my way!
I milk, and I have milk kefir grains, these make yogurt, buttermilk, cheese etc. And I am getting pretty good at making butter.
(Oops edited to correct this, it looks like I planted Kefir... nope Kefir is in the kitchen cabinet growing) I have wheat, rye, oats, triticale and other grain seeds. Now to learn to grow these winter grains in my garden! Just do it! Honest, get the basic foods as above, and then just get to looking for ways to augment your diet.
Foraging is an addition. I would hate to have to depend on what I could find for surviving. But with simple hamburger well over $2.00 per pound, I am thinking: goat or deer burger... then just buy a bit of beef fat from the butcher and get busy grinding it up!
Learn to cook from scratch... make your own tamales and tacos out of the basics... you will really save alot of money.
Get Kefir grains, and make your own milk or water products... save more money.
I have sugar beet seeds, stevia seeds, and sorghum seeds, hoping to learn to get my own sweetening.
I looked into beekeeping but, that just seems too difficult with all the issues facing bees.
Just dig in and look. Back when I was learning about foraging, I didn't have power, so no internet. I had to get a book and just get out there, and try it. With the internet you have a huge resource at your finger tips.
This got long... a book... sorry guys! He just hit my passion... survival!
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Post by ozarklady on Oct 17, 2010 12:25:15 GMT -5
Did I ever mention, I was born in Detroit? I have a college education? My husband is from Kansas City, married, 34 years? I grew up with a/c and maids, and folks to tend the yards. It was just a life style choice. And one that never went over well with my husband and I's parents, who always admired our siblings who lived in suburbia, with the bigger better car.
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stratcat
Tomato Fanatic
Tha Green Bomb!
Neighborhood Pariah
Posts: 422
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Post by stratcat on Oct 17, 2010 12:59:48 GMT -5
Interesting, Ozarklady! Thanks for sharing.
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tz
Tomato Gardener
Posts: 73
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Post by tz on Oct 17, 2010 17:55:44 GMT -5
Small world, my mom is from Detroit, Dad is from Travers City. I'm the only person in the whole family born in Ohio, and get grief about it during football season, and most other times too. Foraging in Michigan means Morels!!!!
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Post by ozarklady on Oct 17, 2010 21:14:34 GMT -5
I saw the movie "Kissing Cousins" and then there is the Beverly Hillbillies old series. I just wanted to clarify, you don't have to be born and raised foraging to learn how to! Oh and I still have Pawpaw seeds, and they have been kept moist. Amazingly, some that I just ate and spat the seeds out, in a cup of water, to ferment, then forgot about, have already sprouted, without cold stratification at all. Then, I canned the majority of the rest all at one time, and these seeds were properly fermented and then cleaned. And kept moist, I keep looking to see if more are sprouting already. Wonder if saliva is the missing ingredient in starting them? ;D
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Post by starlight1153 on Oct 17, 2010 21:39:44 GMT -5
Ozarklady... Your not talking to much, not at all. Can't wait til next door gets home and I can show her your post. I am gonna learn right along with her. Now a days you just never know what life will bring.
Growing up grandparents had outhouse and well water, and a speckled pot with lid if you were to afraid to go outside at night. They never had electricity, or indoor plumbing or anything their entire lives and they raised nine kids.
Small world for real. From Michigan here too, have relatives haven't seen since I was young up in Lansing, Flint and Detroit.
I hunt for food, not for fun. I not the best shot anymore, so I will offer to clean and skin and process for anybody who will bring me a deer for me. I ha d me a deer oen year and a little Geo Metro and couldn't get the whole thing in the car, folks was laughing with me with going down the road with hoofs hanging out, but heck that was good eating. I scraped and cured the hide too.
Yep would get me some fat back from corner store and trays and grind my own meat up. I would get those package s of beef ramein noodles, add half a packet of the seasoning packet to the meat and folks never knew they weren't eating beef.
For real, I used to work meat department for large chain store. Was years before I would eat ground-up hamburger after learning how to make it.
I have lots of squirrels here and while I enjoy the wildlife around me. I have cleaned and eaten squirrel.
Was out telling next door tonight while helping her burn and clear some land to put in veggies, that had relative s that bought strip mine land in Ohio and only thing on it was water and that was spring water that bubbled up constantly in this like giant cement circular water trough. It had crawdads in it to help keep it filtered and that women would take their kids all down to bath them first and then themselves and then the men would go down.
My two youngest brothers grew up in city. Mom made dad give up farm. But even in city he found a man who gave him small piece of land to grow veggies on. Us kids used to help plant , harvest and sell it. For the past 50 years he been growing his tomatoes and cukes out from the backyard in the city and still gives and sells em.
How you make your Hickory Butter. This is the recipe that was given to me. I have the how do with the bark, but since said use the nuts I have this part. Is your recipe the same?
"When I had amassed a gallon or so of shagbark nutshell pieces, I decided to give it a try. I dumped all my nutshells into a large pot, then noticed a sack of nice, clean mockernut nuts I’d collected a few days earlier – they have a great flavor, almost as strong as black walnut , but the shell is so thick and contorted that it’s rarely worth the trouble of trying to crack and pick them out. I took a dozen or so of those mockernuts, crunched them with a pair of vise-grip pliers and pitched them into the pot, along with their husks. Covered this with a couple of gallons of water, and boiled them all day long. Boy, the house sure smelled good!
After I scooped out the nut pieces and strained it a couple of times, I ended up with about 6 cups of dark brown fluid. I added 6 cups of sugar, brought it to a boil, and simmered, stirring constantly, for 30 minutes or so, then poured off into canning jars. The syrup was thinner than I’d liked, so I went back and looked at Donna’s instructions – she thought they probably used 2 cups sugar per cup of hickory water. However, when I tried another batch or two, if I got much above 1½ cups of sugar per cup of fluid, the sugar started crystallizing out when the syrup cooled - hickory flavored rock candy. Not bad, but not what I was shooting for, so I’ve pretty well stopped at 1¼ to 1½ cup sugar per cup of hickory water.
I made a test batch of hickory butter using a single stick of softened, room-temperature butter, and found that somewhere between ¼ cup and 1/3 cup of syrup, whipped into 4 oz. of butter worked pretty well. I took some to work, where it was a big hit at the break table – we often cook up a pan or two of Mary B’s biscuits, with assorted jams, jellies, or country ham. It went over so well that I made up a larger batch of hickory butter and passed out containers of it to co-workers as Christmas gifts.
So…after you’ve cracked and picked out the nutmeats from your favorite hickories, there’s still more good stuff that you can extract from what’s left over."
What I wonder is will any type of Hickory nuts work?
I pick the wild berries. Red bug and tic city afterwards, but they sure taste good. Never tried Listerine for tics. A bar of dog flea shampoo works great for killing red bugs. Kills the bugs and stops the itch in about a half hour.
Thanks for the information on the Sassafrass. Can't wait til spring now to collect the leaves and try it. : )
I usually don't collect the mushrooms. Even with all the fungal classes I took and books, I still don't trust myself. I have been watching which ones the squirrels in the yard eat. They only seem to touch one small white one.
First time I ever went mushroom hunting was shortly after I arrived in Indiana. Whole gang of folks went. I was so proud of my big bag of shrooms. They dumped it out and every one in there was poisioous. All them spider bites I got for nothing. They share d their sponge mushrooms with me. The one lady slice d and battered in flour and fried in some butter. it was like eating a plate of potato chips. I pigged out. : ) Was sicker than a dog the next day. : ( That is one thing I have learned when trying something new start out in small quantities and see how the stomach holds up.
I just got some Stevia seeds and am going to try and grow it too myself. Have heard it a bit hard to get the seed going. Guess will find out.
Here what a friend sent me who grows it:
"How to start Stevia plants: Stevia is best sown indoors in the Bio Dome or seed flat. Drop a single seed in each cell of the Bio Dome or place the seeds on top of the starting medium, and keep them at a temperature of 68 to 70 degrees F. (If your house is colder than this, a heat mat is recommended.)
Outdoors, sow the seeds when the soil warms to 65 degrees F in spring. Germination occurs in 10 to 15 days.
Planting out: When the seedlings have at least two true leaves, they are ready to be transplanted into the garden. Harden them off for a few days and then transplant when all danger of frost has passed, spacing the plants 18 inches apart in full sun and sandy or light, well-drained soil.
Special considerations: Stevia likes to stay evenly moist, not too dry and not too wet. Make sure the soil drainage is excellent.
The FDA has declared that the sweetening agent rebaudioside in Stevia is safe, but consult a physician before using natural Stevia when pregnant or under a doctor's care.
The branches of this plant are quite brittle, so site Stevia in an area protected from foot traffic to avoid breakage. Indoors, set it away from the flow of activity in the room.
Growing tips: During the first 2 months of the growing season, pinch the tips of the plant every 3 weeks. This will result in a bushier, better-branched plant. If possible, pinch in the early morning. After planting, do not dig up and move Stevia. Mulch Stevia well, to protect its shallow root system from the heat of the sun. Fertilize with a regular (non-lawn) plant food throughout the growing process. Pinch off individual leaves as you need them throughout the growing season. As soon as the flower buds appear, harvest the entire plant by cutting it at the base and hanging it upside-down in a warm, dry, drafty area for a few days. Do not pinch off the buds or try to postpone flowering; if you do, the leaves will lose their sweet flavor. Harvest in the morning, when the plant's sugar content is highest.
Pests and problems to watch for: Bottom-water the seedlings (the Bio Dome is ideal for this) to avoid damping off.
In the garden, use a soaker hose rather than an overhead watering system if at all possible. Dirt and other debris splashed on the leaves will affect their flavor, so take care when watering, and keep plants spaced a reasonable distance apart."
and another friend sent me this who also grows it:
"Recipe for usingRecepie for useing harvested Stevia leaves. Pick ( early morning)1/4 cup fresh leaves and 1 cup water. Gently bruise leaves and put in bowl, add warm water over the leaves and let sit for 24 hrs. Strain water off and store in container with lid in refrigerator. Must use in a few days or it will spoil. To freeze and use later put in ice cube trays and freeze. Lasts longer like this.
To make liquid sweetner,with dried leaves.
Use 1Tb dried leaves and 1 Qt. of boiling water, pour water over dried leaves , let sit till cool and freeze in ice cube trays- this frozen will last for a long time. harvested Stevia leaves. Pick ( early morning)1/4 cup fresh leaves and 1 cup water. Gently bruise leaves and put in bowl, add warm water over the leaves and let sit for 24 hrs. Strain water off and store in container with lid in refrigerator. Must use in a few days or it will spoil. To freeze and use later put in ice cube trays and freeze. Lasts longer like this.
To make liquid sweetener,with dried leaves.
Use 1Tb dried leaves and 1 Qt. of boiling water, pour water over dried leaves , let sit till cool and freeze in ice cube trays- this frozen will last for a long time."
What are milk kefir grains?
I met on labor day a woman who make s all her own bread s and sells them. Her children have never been to a fast food restaurant. She goes to Atlanta the big market there and buys whole wheat grain and then goes home and grinds it herself. The taste , texture and flavor is so much different than eating store bought bread. She started growing and processing as much as her own food as she could and gathering. her child was Autisic and once she started growing her own and adding some foraged food groups , her child's problem stopped.
I knew somebody who would go salmon fishing every year and then get to the Mason jars and can them up. I haven't tried canning any type of meat yet.
I pick the wild muscadines. They make some tasty jams and jelly and are just as good eating as the cultured vines.
Greens growing up was a lot of dandelions. Still enjoy them today. : )
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Post by ozarklady on Oct 18, 2010 8:44:54 GMT -5
I get it, you are basically making a hickory sap syrup and mixing it into butter! You can make nut butters, similar to peanut butter. You simply hull the nuts, then put them into a blender and blend like crazy, some you will need to add a touch of oil to get the texture, and to make them like Peter Pan Peanut butter, you need a sweetner, honey, syrup etc. Homemade nutbutters will separate out, so you have to remix them up at point of use. They don't have chemical stabilizers in them! Start alot of Stevia, I am told that some plants are more bitter than sweet. Then when you find a sweet plant clone it. I have not personally done this as of yet. Here is some Pawpaw butter, it has no butter in it... it is just not quite as thick as preserves so more like apple butter. My tomato jelly was a big hit with the family. Dehydrated tomatoes didn't go over so great, but they will work fine in dishes that call for 1tsp tomato paste etc. I am on a mission to capture persimmons. I got some the other day. And even though no frost yet, it seemed ripe... so I bit. It was fantastic. Since we got it in the right of way of a house, thought, okay maybe it is domestic ones? So, I tried another one... big mistake. It looked the same, same ripeness. But, I can't talk right now mouth is all puckered up... And a drink does not help! The persimmon just disperses better to all areas of the mouth, it coats the tongue, the teeth, even the saliva glands? But, when it is good it is really good! ha ha I have 2 neighbors with persimmons growing thick on their property and they don't want them... aha... Off I go stalking that persimmon. Old wives tale... open a persimmon seed to predict the winter. Fork is mild winter, spoon is lots of snow. Oh no, the opened seeds have run 90% spoons this year. But we had enough snow last year for 5 years! Check the persimmon seeds growing in your area, and see if the seeds know...
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Post by ozarklady on Oct 18, 2010 8:59:59 GMT -5
I corrected my earlier post, the way I worded it the first time it sounded like I was planting Kefir for the winter... oops. Sorry, brain was not processing complete thoughts, or too fast? Winter grains for garden were not Kefir, but basic grain types, that I need to sort into what season to grow! Kefir is an ancient "grain" it is actually a grouping of yeasts and yogurt types, that ferment either milk or water. The water kefir makes soda bubbly (co2) and the milk type makes yogurt, buttermilk etc. They are very healthful. users.sa.chariot.net.au/~dna/Makekefir.htmlSince this is not a Kefir forum, I figure no competition to add a link to info about Kefir. It is good for you!
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Post by starlight1153 on Oct 18, 2010 9:38:14 GMT -5
Nutter butters sounds yummy. So after I blend the nuts and add a bit of honey, you just put it up in jars, seal it and then stir when ready to use? What is the shelf life, please. Your PawPaw looks heavenly. Drooling here thinking about that spread on some fresh baked bread warm from the oven. Where did you get those cute little jars that on the top of the pic, if you don't mind my asking. That is one thing I have a problem with when canning . Sometimes even the little jars are to big and jams and jellies will go bad before I have a chance to finish the jar. I only know of where one Paw Paw tree is and I think everybody else to including the wildlife knows it is there, and it a 100 mile round trip. By the time I make it, usually everything is gone or picked over. I need to try and get some trees started here myself. ;D had my first persimmon about three years ago, it wasn't ripe. Chuckling away here at your experience. : ) If they ready, reminds me I need to make a road trip. I know where some of the Japanese varieties are. They a bit sweeter than the American type. I've never done anything with them other than eat them. Shame on me. Guess I should learn. You may not have any up on your area , but have you tried Loquat before? Good eating. I have to and try and see if I can find some more seedlings or try and start some again. I would forage from this tree as they usually just cleaned them up and tossed in trash the old tree was such a heavy producer. About three years ago, found a couple of seedling a few inches tall and asked permission to dig them up and bring home. Potted them up and had been babying them all these years in a pot to protect from winter cold, and went away for a few days and person who was supposed to water, didn't water them enough and left in hot burning sun and fried them up. I wanted to cry. Was hoping to have them start bearing fruit in a couple more years. If I bug ya too much, just let me know. You won't hurt my feelings. I love learning about new things. Especially more ways to get away from commercial practices and food and such and your a wealth of information to teach folks. It may be hard work, but it would be nice to be able to be totally or as close to totally self reliant as possible. I know when I lived in Germany for awhile, was some of the healthiest eating ever. No chems allowed. Probably ate more bugs and worms from fruit and veggies than I ever knew about. The apple s always ha d worms, but ya just dug them out if you saw them or maybe you would just bite and swallow one without ever knowing. Now if ya know how to heat a trailer during the winter without having to spend 300 bucks every 20 days or so, would love to know. There must be a way, but I haven't discovered it yet and fuel is a killer. That more money that could be put to seed and plants and such. Good luck on your Persimmon hunting.
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Post by darthslater on Oct 18, 2010 11:29:17 GMT -5
I saw the movie "Kissing Cousins" and then there is the Beverly Hillbillies old series. I just wanted to clarify, you don't have to be born and raised foraging to learn how to! Oh and I still have Pawpaw seeds, and they have been kept moist. Amazingly, some that I just ate and spat the seeds out, in a cup of water, to ferment, then forgot about, have already sprouted, without cold stratification at all. Then, I canned the majority of the rest all at one time, and these seeds were properly fermented and then cleaned. And kept moist, I keep looking to see if more are sprouting already. Wonder if saliva is the missing ingredient in starting them? ;D Hey Ozark, I would love some of those Paw-Paw seeds!! Darth!!
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Post by starlight1153 on Oct 18, 2010 15:09:56 GMT -5
Ozark... Opps.. Guess I missed a post. Thanks for the clarification on the Kefir. I loved the Beverly Hillbillies, and now will be going around singing the theme song to Green Acres all day. Do you have enough fruits that you can try and spit a couple of seeds again and seed what happens? Who knows maybe you have stumbled on the perfect germination process. Makes sense it might work. Look at all the seed that needs eaten by wildlife to germinate. Mulio..... Wish I had a pic too, I didn't own a camera then. At least getting it out was easier than going in, but what wasn't easy was getting rid of the tons of ticks the deer had. The car was loaded with them.
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Post by ozarklady on Oct 18, 2010 15:20:52 GMT -5
Darth, I already have you down for Pawpaw seeds, Mulio, send me your address. I found Darth's address posted online in some thread. And thought Michigan bananas need to go home! If anyone has wild foods, or fruits that will grow well from seeds, I would love some. I have English walnuts from Utah growing in pots at the moment, and peach trees from a neighbors peach tree. My peach tree got had by worms, but it sure made alot of seeds, bet there will be seedlings galore come spring all around it. My idea in neighbors peach tree (neighbor is 12 miles away) so it is likely a different variety, so better cross pollination? maybe? Lesson learned.. spray fruit when they are blooming, not once fruit is growing! I still have perennial onions (Egyptian walking onions) that need homes! They will all dry out before I can use 10% of them. You know, this sounds crazy, but I would even love to find wild tomatoes... I mean the ones back before domestication made what we have now! I know all these years of breeding have contributed to a lot and changed them alot. I am thinking wild strawberries, tiny, barely productive, fussy to grow or keep alive... then you taste one... You hear music, your mouth dances, and you forget how difficult they can be! Then you go eat a tame one, and go it is good, but not over the moon, ya know? I wonder if the original wild tomatoes were like those wild strawberries? I also wonder, if they would revert back, with lots of odd crosses? Chickens left to run, and just all different breeds tossed in the flock, will begin to revert back to wild type birds. I know, I have to remove all roosters and restock with registered roosters quite often or I have game chickens fighting all over the yard! Does anyone raise worms? I am wondering if a person took those night crawlers sold for fish bait and put them in a worm bin, and kept them fed, would they build garden soil and fish bait? I know the composting worms are not the same as red worms, or are they? But, can you raise worms to fish, compost scraps and get casings for the garden all in one? I know, more questions than answers! But forums are for sharing knowledge.
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