jcm05
Administrator
Posts: 1,685
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Post by jcm05 on Oct 5, 2010 14:47:46 GMT -5
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stratcat
Tomato Fanatic
Tha Green Bomb!
Neighborhood Pariah
Posts: 422
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Post by stratcat on Oct 5, 2010 15:41:31 GMT -5
Thanks very much, Jt.
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bammer
Tomato Fanatic
Turkaconus Freak & Mater Head
Posts: 361
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Post by bammer on Oct 5, 2010 17:42:29 GMT -5
Got mine the other day
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Post by darthslater on Oct 5, 2010 20:08:47 GMT -5
Nicely done John, now we know what happened to a great organization, the talent left.
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Post by sunflowers on Oct 6, 2010 5:11:29 GMT -5
I got mine the other day too.
Yesterday i was looking around to see if anyone had commented on it at all. There are actually a few guarded comments on the SSE board itself.
Sad to see the infighting happening. But it's way beyond me to know who is right in all of it. I'm sure there are at least 2 sides to the story if not a lot more. But it does seem like it could be a disaster in the making any time a govt entity (UN) gets involved.
Carol
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jcm05
Administrator
Posts: 1,685
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Post by jcm05 on Oct 6, 2010 6:08:47 GMT -5
Yup. Just another example of how self-absorbed, greedy people can ruin well-intended organizations. Money is the root of all evil. I was on the fence last year before sending in my membership renewal. This year I am not. I cannot see SSE going anywhere but downhill from here.
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Tom Akers
Tomato Gardener
Fishrman and Tomato Lover
Posts: 84
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Post by Tom Akers on Oct 6, 2010 6:59:17 GMT -5
Yup. Just another example of how self-absorbed, greedy people can ruin well-intended organizations. Money is the root of all evil. I was on the fence last year before sending in my membership renewal. This year I am not. I cannot see SSE going anywhere but downhill from here. Sad to say, but I'm afraid you're right. As soon as there is big money involved the greedy appear to fix things. JMO, Tom
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carolyn137
Breeder in Training
Its all my fault
Posts: 180
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Post by carolyn137 on Oct 7, 2010 9:15:28 GMT -5
Yup. Just another example of how self-absorbed, greedy people can ruin well-intended organizations. Money is the root of all evil. I was on the fence last year before sending in my membership renewal. This year I am not. I cannot see SSE going anywhere but downhill from here. JOhn, you aren't the only one who is not going to reup on membership, there are quite a few others I know of who are considering the same. Since I'm a lifetime member that's that for me, no real options on that issue, But as with others I know I may cut back on what I list, which isn't that many anyway. I'm not going to mention any names b/c that does no good. But Carol is right in saying there's always two sides to every story so none of us will know enough to make informed decisions, but I do think that some major changes need to be made at SSE in the near furture to halt what I see as a possible downward spiral. OTOH there are those who have posted at the SSE site that they see younger folks attending what used to be called Campout and praising some of the new programs. So we shall see what unfolds. Carolyn
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Post by bluelacedredhead on Oct 7, 2010 9:21:12 GMT -5
A friend encouraged me to join SSE a few years back, but when all these changes began to take place I decided against it.
As far as the new younger members are concerned, I believe that happens in most organizations. Change being welcomed in an organization based on older varieties and a simpler time seems a contradiction in beliefs to me.
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PVP
Tomatophile
head spellerer
Only an Amateur
Posts: 798
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Post by PVP on Oct 7, 2010 9:26:15 GMT -5
I'm not sure I can physically or mentally digest another frickin' 8 page letter from Kent Whealy.
Could someone please just tell me whether this one contains anything new compared to his previous diatribes?
And where does this guy get the money to send out 7-plus-frickin-thousand letters first class mail?
Compute the cost, I mean the postage plus the printing, etc.
I didn't send my dues in this summer (stupid date for membership renewal anyway) and so won't get a 2011 Yearbook, and don't plan on listing anymore tomatoes. The response to the ones I listed in 2010 was miserable anyway.
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carolyn137
Breeder in Training
Its all my fault
Posts: 180
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Post by carolyn137 on Oct 7, 2010 12:15:46 GMT -5
I'm not sure I can physically or mentally digest another frickin' 8 page letter from Kent Whealy.
Could someone please just tell me whether this one contains anything new compared to his previous diatribes?
****
The only thing NEW that I saw was that he contends that while seeds sent to Svalbard cannot be removed by other depositors from Svalbard, seeds for those same varieties can be requested from the original depositor, in this case SSE.
When I received requests from SSE to send my newest varieties to them for seed storage, and I return the money they send, I'm well aware of the seed storage capabilities at Decorah as well as the backup storage at the NSSL in Fort Collins, CO. All to say that when sending in seeds for strorage I never signed anything that said that those varieties could be sent elsewhere, and I'm sure that was the undertstanding of others as well. Just to note that I have no idea of which varieties of anything were sent to Svalbard and who made those decisions.
(And where does this guy get the money to send out 7-plus-frickin-thousand letters first class mail?
Compute the cost, I mean the postage plus the printing, etc.)
In the past some of the letters have been sent to listed members only. I don't know if this letter was sent to the whole membership.
As for money, Kent was given refuge in MI by someone who made possible the initial purchase of the White Park Cattle. I understand the person is not cash-strapped, as it were. Perhaps that's a source of money? I don't know.
(I didn't send my dues in this summer (stupid date for membership renewal anyway) and so won't get a 2011 Yearbook, and don't plan on listing anymore tomatoes. The response to the ones I listed in 2010 was miserable anyway.)
My 2010 requests were miserable as well. The Yearbook has become primarily a seed source , and not a mechanism to facilitate preservation of OP varieties, but it's not the fault of SSE that usage of the YEarbook has changed over time.Relisting rates were way over 50% when I first joined and are now down to less than about 5% and I speak only to the varieties I've listed in the past.
Carolyn
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bammer
Tomato Fanatic
Turkaconus Freak & Mater Head
Posts: 361
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Post by bammer on Oct 7, 2010 17:15:10 GMT -5
I sure enjoy having access to all those vegtable varietys, but I shudder to think that I may be in part supporting anything involved with that God forsaken U.N. organization.
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Post by klorentz on Oct 8, 2010 0:42:45 GMT -5
I have held back on saying anything on this issue because it is such a hot potato as it where.Clearly something is amiss.So why not start another private seed bank? God knows there are enough of us world wide that save seeds or in my case are preparing to save seeds.I know many of us have 100 plus tomato varieties alone.Something in any case needs to be done as an insurance policy so we do not end up in the cold and have seeds to fall back on should the need arise.
As to SSE I have debated about it when I had money to join but seeing the controversy that has erupted over the last few years I am glad I did not. It is a sad thing to say given the plethora of seeds SSE has but right now membership does not seem like a wise investment.
Kevin
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carolyn137
Breeder in Training
Its all my fault
Posts: 180
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Post by carolyn137 on Oct 9, 2010 8:07:46 GMT -5
I sure enjoy having access to all those vegtable varietys, but I shudder to think that I may be in part supporting anything involved with that God forsaken U.N. organization. Jon, as I see it the involvement with "that" UN organiztion applies only to those varieties that are sent to Svalbard, and I would hope that somewhere there's a list of what was sent and also some indication if this is going to continue. I can ask at the SSE site , actually that's all I can do. But I was thinking yesterday, I do that from time to time, , especially since the nail guns and hammering as a crew puts a new roof on my home is necessary but very distracting for me to do anything else. The YEarbook will continue and it's still going to have thousands of varieties not obtainable elsewhere, and it still serves as a mechanism for preservation of OP varieties, and that preservation was the initial goal of SSE when it was formed in 1975. seedsavers.org/I just checked the membership costs b'c I'd forgotten them b'c I do have a lifetime membership. One year for US folks is $40 and European memberships are $55 and there are other categories listed in the above link as well. Several of us have rotated paying the membership for Andrey Baranovski in Belarus b'c he's been so wonderful in posting his huge list of varieties he'll send to folks, sends some varieties to folks directly and along with Tania has listed many many new ones in the Yearbook as well as sending some varieties for trial to a few commercial places. What I'm trying to say is that the Yearbook is still a great place to get some new and interesting varieties. And b'c of the many posts at the SSE site each person can now state what they'd like for a request price which has been a bone of contention b'c almost everyone assumed they had to go along with the SSE suggested prices, which was never true and for years my request price , as well as several others, has been considerably lower than the suggested prices which many of us thought were outrageous. So that seems settled as well. So if one can separate the Yearbook offerings from the rest of the "stuff" that has been going on I still think that those who are interested in the more rare varieties who have been paying the same $40 to at least give a nod to the seed preservation angle I still think it's worthwhile. Some of you know Joanne at SSE who does a lot of data entry for the Yearbook and she e-mailed me yesterday to ask about the spelling of a variety I introduced several years ago, and it was her e-mail that also got me thinking about all of this as well. My listings aren't that many since I fell and I also offer most of them, and most of them are new to all or most folks, in my free seed offer at Tville as several of you already know. This year my 2010 ones will be way down but that's b'c of problems with seed production by others who do that for me, thank heavens. I do, well Freda does, grow all the varieties I hope to list with SSE and/or offer at Tville and with Freda's help I do set up a few fermentations, but this year all that accomplished was getting enough seeds to regrow the same ones next year. Because with 38 plants out there to date I have less than 20 fruits off those 38 plants. Just something to think about in terms of support for the overall OP seed preservation mission of SSE so stated back in 1975. Carolyn
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Post by rintintin on Oct 9, 2010 19:01:09 GMT -5
*** I would hope that somewhere there's a list of what was sent and also some indication if this is going to continue. ***
What I gathered from the letter, is that the deposit is limited to the +/- 9,000 varieties that are "unique" to the SSE collection. I also gathered that the SSE grow-outs are now based upon fulfilling that agenda.
My 'Senior' membership is $25, and I feel that it is well worth it for access to the world's greatest collection of heritage seeds. The suggestion of starting a back-up collection elsewhere appeals to me. I think that the lack-of-confidence arising from this issue has opened the doors for several such collections. If we can grow our own food year after year, we can do anything!
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