|
gs gene
Jan 24, 2011 10:50:04 GMT -5
Post by jonnyyuma on Jan 24, 2011 10:50:04 GMT -5
If gs is multiallelic than you should see some differences between the alleles. I checked the gene list from TGRC and didn't see it listed as having more than one allele??? Do you know it to be mulitallelic? Jonny
|
|
hillbillypie
Breeder in Training
Tomato Growing Nutjob
Posts: 210
|
gs gene
Jan 24, 2011 12:21:12 GMT -5
Post by hillbillypie on Jan 24, 2011 12:21:12 GMT -5
Do you know it to be mulitallelic? Jonny Yes. It has 5 alleles. This is relatively new information. I believe it was first published in late '09. Also, the gf gene is probably relatively new. Which apparently debunks any claim that the "Cherokee" tomatoes were grown by Native Americans for hundreds of years. From what I read, the gf alleles did not appear until post WW2. The so called "black" tomatoes are probably as recent as the late '50s or early '60s. That's what happens when we let people "guess" the origin of a "new" variety. The above statement really needs to be addressed in a new post. I will try to write something up later and post it elsewhere.
|
|
|
gs gene
Jan 24, 2011 14:43:18 GMT -5
Post by darthslater on Jan 24, 2011 14:43:18 GMT -5
HAHAHAHA that is the funniest thing I have heard all week!! What an analogy!! Crap, I spit pop all over my comp!! Well, perhaps we should rename it the "Pap effect" or the "Couch gene expressing channel surfing".
Thanks Keith, that seems to be quit frustrating though. And I am sure you told me the same thing before, it is just a striking effect when the fruit shows the varigation.
|
|
|
gs gene
Jan 24, 2011 17:00:11 GMT -5
Post by jonnyyuma on Jan 24, 2011 17:00:11 GMT -5
Thats funny. Marketing isn't just for the large corporations any longer.
This has enspired some crosses for me to study gf a little more as an F1. Without recipricals that is 9 crosses. I think gf2 is the most interesting. Thanks. I will have to get that article and read it tonight. Jonny
|
|
|
gs gene
Jan 24, 2011 20:11:28 GMT -5
Post by gobmaters on Jan 24, 2011 20:11:28 GMT -5
Thanks to Keith for answering the question by Darth about variegation. Now, I have this question. What is the flesh color in the F1 when you cross a green when ripe tomato(homozygous for gf) with a purple or black tomato (homozygous for both gf and the gene for red fruit color)? This would give a hybrid heterozygous for the red flesh gene and homozygous for the gf gene. In the cross I wrote about earlier where I crossed a pink tomato with a black tomato, the F1 fruit color is slightly off-red, which I referred to as rusty red. This tomato is homozygous for the red fruit gene and heterozygous for the green flesh gene. What happens to the fruit color when you double the dose effect for the gf gene and half the dose for the red flesh gene? Keith, have you made a cross of this type? Thanks, Randy.
|
|
leftylogan
Global Moderator
Moderator in Training
Posts: 232
|
gs gene
Jan 24, 2011 21:27:35 GMT -5
Post by leftylogan on Jan 24, 2011 21:27:35 GMT -5
Oh good now Blane will be even more confused.
|
|
|
gs gene
Jan 24, 2011 21:33:04 GMT -5
Post by blane on Jan 24, 2011 21:33:04 GMT -5
Oh good now Blane will be even more confused. After todays posts....Im all in tune again! ;D Nicely done folks!
|
|
tomato
Tomato Gardener
Posts: 58
|
gs gene
Jan 24, 2011 22:00:31 GMT -5
Post by tomato on Jan 24, 2011 22:00:31 GMT -5
Randy,
I might be able to answer that question in part.
In 2005 I grew several plants that were supposed to be Cherokee Green. One of them produced salmon colored fruit. The rest were typical green when ripe tomatoes. The next year, I grew seed from that plant and got segregation including bright cherry red, bright yellow, one salmon similar to the parent, and one green when ripe similar to the grandparent. I did NOT grow enough plants to fully characterize the segregation so I am not sure how it would have segregated in a large population. Please note that my seed source was Craig Lehoullier for the Cherokee Green seed. I am certain this was a bee made cross, not a stray seed.
From the results, I suspect that Cherokee Green crossed with a red when ripe variety. The segregants then displayed red from the red parent, yellow as a result of one of the yellow genes expressed in the absence of lycopene, salmon as a combination of gf with red, and green when ripe for homozygous gf. Of these, the yellow color was most interesting. It was a bright shiny yellow with no hint of gold or orange. It was not the washed out creme yellow like Lillian's Yellow Heirloom.
I still have a package of these seed if they are interesting enough for anyone to pursue.
Has anyone else grown Zeigler's Fleisch? That has to be one of the strangest colors I've seen in a tomato.
DarJones
|
|
hillbillypie
Breeder in Training
Tomato Growing Nutjob
Posts: 210
|
gs gene
Jan 25, 2011 1:14:33 GMT -5
Post by hillbillypie on Jan 25, 2011 1:14:33 GMT -5
Do you have examples of crossing with other alleles of gf besides the Black Cherry gf4? Perhaps this would make a really good "TTG" group project. We could split up the 5 gf alleles among members and in each gf group make a cross with a stripe, or whatever else we could come up with. Say, each person makes 2 crosses then we do grow outs and compare notes here? What do you think?
|
|
|
gs gene
Jan 25, 2011 9:03:04 GMT -5
Post by darthslater on Jan 25, 2011 9:03:04 GMT -5
Hey do you have any pics Keith? I like your idea Steve.
|
|
hillbillypie
Breeder in Training
Tomato Growing Nutjob
Posts: 210
|
gs gene
Jan 25, 2011 18:39:40 GMT -5
Post by hillbillypie on Jan 25, 2011 18:39:40 GMT -5
Other than Cherokee Purple and Arbuznyi, what are some other dark varieties that have Fs? Do you know of some that have the Fs and not the gf?
|
|
hillbillypie
Breeder in Training
Tomato Growing Nutjob
Posts: 210
|
gs gene
Jan 25, 2011 18:46:32 GMT -5
Post by hillbillypie on Jan 25, 2011 18:46:32 GMT -5
Has anyone else grown Zeigler's Fleisch? That has to be one of the strangest colors I've seen in a tomato. DarJones Do you have any more information or some pictures of this?
|
|
|
gs gene
Jan 25, 2011 19:28:54 GMT -5
Post by frogsleapfarm on Jan 25, 2011 19:28:54 GMT -5
I just read the article. It looks like these alleles are all mutations that silence the native gene for chlorophyll breakdown in chloroplasts. I believe that these alleles should give exactly the same phenotype, and that crosses to the various alleles will give the same result.
|
|
hillbillypie
Breeder in Training
Tomato Growing Nutjob
Posts: 210
|
gs gene
Jan 27, 2011 22:33:03 GMT -5
Post by hillbillypie on Jan 27, 2011 22:33:03 GMT -5
I don't think I will be convinced of a common phenotype among the alleles until I can cross a representative from each group with the same variety and observe the F1. I do realize that won't be worth much from a scientific standpoint, but it will be an interesting project. Of course the only way to really answer that would be to splice each allele into a common carrier, breed with a control and then observe the F1 - Fx. ...Unless someone can suggest a more practical method.
|
|
hillbillypie
Breeder in Training
Tomato Growing Nutjob
Posts: 210
|
gs gene
Jan 30, 2011 12:36:34 GMT -5
Post by hillbillypie on Jan 30, 2011 12:36:34 GMT -5
I didn't mean to kill this thread. I was just being silly.
In the TOMATO SHOW thread, post number 55, there is a yellow tomato with red stripes(just below the bucket). Is this Fs also? Would anyone know what variety that is?
|
|