What if you like the F1 better?

[annie]

When you are amateurishly crossing tomatoes in hopes of getting a terrific OP variety and you like the F1 better than anything you grow out, what do you do then?

I am playing with the idea of crossing a Brandywine version that seems to grow pretty well here in Georgia (just through the Georgia seed-provider's use of it for several years and saving the seeds from plants that are early and productive) and another heat-tolerant tomato. What's the likelihood that the F1 result will be better than the F1 growouts, given hybrid vigor and all that?

[PVP]

Jun 4, 2010 10:31:43 GMT -5 annie said:

When you are amateurishly crossing tomatoes in hopes of getting a terrific OP variety and you like the F1 better than anything you grow out, what do you do then?

Then you have to make enough crosses to create a perpetual supply of seed necessary to match your demand year to year.


Peace, PV

[PVP]

Jun 4, 2010 10:31:43 GMT -5 annie said:

I am playing with the idea of crossing a Brandywine version that seems to grow pretty well here in Georgia (just through the Georgia seed-provider's use of it for several years and saving the seeds from plants that are early and productive) and another heat-tolerant tomato.

What is the other heat tolerant tomato that you intend to use in the cross with your heat tolerant Brandywine?


Peace, PV

[annie]

Yes, I should probably find out if it's been done and if there are any F1s already hanging around.

I want to cross the BW with a Break O'Day.

[peppereater]

just noticed this thread, I'm wondering about annie's point about hybrid vigor...is that not a superior trait to anything fully segregated to F1? Is that vigor not lost in the OP?

[jcm05]

Jun 30, 2010 14:20:21 GMT -5 peppereater said:

just noticed this thread, I'm wondering about annie's point about hybrid vigor...is that not a superior trait to anything fully segregated to F1? Is that vigor not lost in the OP?

[annie]

Yes, I'd like to know if anyone has noticed a difference between F1s and any growouts re hybrid vigor.

I also want to try a cross of Goose Creek, red version, with the "southern" Brandywine version I have. I know there's a lot of hoopla about GC and trying to protect it from "contamination", but it really IS a good tomato, relatively large, heat-resistant, and the first one to produce fruit in my garden. The Brandywine, a pink, is a week or so later, but so far, they're also large and beautiful after suffering from a few with BER.

[tz]

What are some good F1s that people could make? I've heard that Brandywine x NAR makes a good F1.

For people that don't have room or inclination to do growouts it seems like you could get some tasty stuff from just the F1s if you knew the right combos. A single successful crossed fruit yielding 50-200 seeds would last me forever.

[PVP]

tz, yes Brandywine x Neves Azorean Red made an excellent F1 for me and I got over 125 seeds out of that initial cross.

Be aware that subsequent generations have given me great results and not so great results. Two F4 plants this year are now over 5 feet tall and have yet to set a fruit, for example. But in some cases the F2s were even better than the F1s. Mixed results. Anyway, I'd recommend that cross for a really good F1.

A cross I did in 2008, and am growing the F1 this summer, is another excellent red tomato hybrid ... Mozark x Sioux. This is an old University of Missouri cross known by them as MoCross Surprise, and I've seen it called Missouri Surprise by some old timers. But it is no longer in production as University of Missouri no longer produces Mozark seed. The F1 is early (65 days or so) and heavy, red and generally about the same size or larger than a baseball. Very fine, upright, well foliaged, productive, healthy vine.

I'd really like to make a good cross of several Mozark x Glamour to replicate Avalanche, another University of Missouri hybrid no longer in production. I feel it would be a crack resistant, midseason, heat tolerant, great looking red canner/slicer. But Mozark pistils are very fragile and I kept busting them while trying to make that cross. I intend to try again next year.

Just a few red tomato thoughts there ...


PV

[tz]

Sounds like its a pretty good trick to get an F1 that tastes as good as two good parents.

[jcm05]

IMO, the trick is to use good parents. Two excellent parents will result in an excellent F1.