The Elusive Green Pear?

[darthslater]

Hey Pap, JT..look what I found today in my row of GG X YS!!

[jcm05]

Woohoo! Cross your fingers!

[PVP]

My original intent in crossing Green Giant x Yellow Submarine was to create a "Green Grape" tomato on a potato leaf vine, as it is my understanding, whether a correct assumption or not, that Tom Wagner created Green Grape from something like Evergreen x Yellow Pear.

Wagner's Green Grape is a yellow epidermis green-when-ripe on a determinate, regular leaf vine. My hope if for a clear epidermis green-when-ripe grape on an indeterminate, potato leaf vine.

I've been told by my far more experienced friends like Keith Mueller and Darrel Jones that chances of finding a green grape or green pear from this mix are something along the lines of 36:1 or 64:1 depending on the degree of necked expression in the fruit combined with green when ripe flesh. I suppose chance to get a clear skin, green-when-ripe, pear shaped tomato may run somewhere around 128:1 or greater?

And that's why I sent F1 and F2 seeds out to several people over the past 2 years ... simply because I don't have the space to grow 36, 64 or much less 128 plants of one custom cross!

The F2s are proving widely divergent in segregation and time will tell what all comes out of the mix. I'm lucky and grateful to Darth, my new friend and very ambitious market grower, who is growing a few dozen F2s and already has that one plant covered with small pear shaped tomatoes. My greatest hope is his plant also will have green-when-ripe fruit.

JayTee is growing several F2 plants and has one covered with elongated, more grape shaped fruit, and again if he gets a green-when-ripe from that, I will be delighted. JayTee, post a picture of your little green grape shaped fruit if you get a chance. That is a dandy looking tomato.

Suze in Texas grew the F1 seeds out in Spring 2009, and then she planted two F2 vines in Fall 2009. She sent me F3 seeds from a plant that gave clear skin, pure yellow ping pong fruit, and it is from those seeds that I'm growing the plants I have this year. One of my F3 plants is giving pure yellow ping pong fruit like the F2 seed plant, and the other F3 is giving a 2-inch diameter, green when ripe saladette shaped like a small beefsteak tomato.

The plus I perceive from this particular segregation (saladette size, flattened globe, green-when-ripe) is that it is very productive, very tasty, beautifully colored especially the interior when sliced in halves or quarters, and a very practical size for use by chefs and epicurians who favor smaller salad tomatoes for use across a wider range of small plate dishes (rather than big honking slicing tomatoes that have limited use in fresh applications). In other words, I don't look at downsizing tomatoes negatively but rather as a positive improvement in many regards.

Also, this particular tomato has the benefit of a slightly yellow exterior appearance at full ripe and therefore serves as the indication to immediately harvest while with Green Giant, many tomatoes are lost due to its remaining green in appearance until its shelf life is 8 hours or less.

Now back to the green grape shape or green pear shape tomato that may come from Darth or JayTee, respectively. When I sent F1 seeds to Julianna in Toronto last year, she hoped for a green pear tomato. That is what I hope JayTee produces.

When I mentioned these tomatoes to Carolyn Male, she told me that Tom Wagner already had developed a potato leaf Green Grape called "Papa Grape" ... how ironic! Hahahaha. Oh well.

Carolyn said Tom Wagner had sent her seeds for trial in the mid-1990s and that's about where it rests as Wagner asked her not to share seeds with anyone other than Craig LeHoullier, also only for trial.

So, difference here today is that if Darth, JayTee, Julianna, me or anyone else with whom we share seeds lucks into a green-when-ripe pear or grape tomato from this mix, we and others all will have access to seeds to grow ... whereas "Papa Grape" apparently goes to the grave with its breeder.


GGG

[jcm05]

Jul 11, 2010 18:55:11 GMT -5 PVP said:

When I mentioned these tomatoes to Carolyn Male, she told me that Tom Wagner already had developed a potato leaf Green Grape called "Papa Grape" ... how ironic! Hahahaha. Oh well.

Carolyn said Tom Wagner had sent her seeds for trial in the mid-1990s and that's about where it rests as Wagner asked her not to share seeds with anyone other than Craig LeHoullier, also only for trial.

So, difference here today is that if Darth, JayTee, Julianna, me or anyone else with whom we share seeds lucks into a green-when-ripe pear or grape tomato from this mix, we and others all will have access to seeds to grow ... whereas "Papa Grape" apparently goes to the grave with its breeder.

...and herein lies the difference between wagner and other breeders...we HEAR about all these so-called fabulous varieties, but never SEE them. The only ones I have seen are mediocre at best. Green Zebra, Green Grape, Lime Green Salad. The work being done in the past five years or so by MANY amateur breeders like Bill is going to benefit ALL tomato lovers rather then a select few in the "exclusive" circle of friends. Stay tuned in here.

Jul 11, 2010 18:55:11 GMT -5 PVP said:

JayTee, post a picture of your little green grape shaped fruit if you get a chance. That is a dandy looking tomato.

[PVP]

I love those helicopter rotor blade sepal caps! Awesome looking tomato. Thanks.


PV

[jcm05]

Jul 12, 2010 10:21:50 GMT -5 @mulio said:

The original 'Green Grape' lines were excellent tomatoes JT. Kids picked those plants clean like they do 'Sun Gold' plants.

Well, then apparently he must be hoarding the original seed. I've tried seed from three different sources and all were the same plant and all were spitters.

[darthslater]

I have some green grapes that are really good, if you would like me to send em let me know.

[jcm05]

No thanks. I am done wasting space trying them. ARGGC is better anyway.