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Post by willyswoodpile on Mar 3, 2011 18:06:52 GMT -5
I was wondering how long it takes [on average] for a cross to become stable? I have read a lot and the range seems to be between F4 - F10. I was kind of looking for personal experience rather than a Cornell University study [but that's alright too]. Maybe there are differences in complexity-- resulting in a longer stabilization time, or, simplicity- resulting in a shorter stabilization time. And how about PL and RL: Do those have an effect on how quickly stabilization manifests?
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jcm05
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Post by jcm05 on Mar 3, 2011 19:09:09 GMT -5
There really isn't much gray area in it that personal experience would matter. It really boils down to basic math. You can see at the below link that by the F7 generation there is very little instability left that would keep you from characterizing the variety as open pollinated. kdcomm.net/~tomato/gene/genes2.html
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bammer
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Post by bammer on Mar 3, 2011 22:25:28 GMT -5
Mule, is it not possible to get a rouge? or Mutant? RL lets take Cowlick Brandywine for example, Could I start 30 seeds of this typical PL variety and have 1 come up RL?
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Post by jonnyyuma on Mar 4, 2011 16:54:28 GMT -5
Just to back up what mule has said. I think mutation rates are 10 to the -7 or 0.0000001 or 0.00001% of the base pairs will be mutated per generation. Out crosses and segregation is much more likely. Even after 7 generations of inbreeding after the initial cross, the amount of homozygosity is still only 99.0022 (assuming no linkage or crossing over) and 0.00001 is much less than 0.0078. Jonny
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tomato
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Post by tomato on Mar 4, 2011 17:47:23 GMT -5
While I agree with your overall statement Jonny, it is worth noting that a single genome may have several billion base pairs. If only one in 100000 base pairs mutates, in a genome of 3,200,000,000 base pairs, that still gives a potential for 3,200 mutations.
I like to take a different approach by saying that every tomato plant that grows has at least 2 mutations that were not present in the parents.
DarJones
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bammer
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Post by bammer on Mar 5, 2011 6:52:24 GMT -5
I have started nearly 100 Cowlicks this past month and I can already see that I have a large percentage of RLs, I saved seed from all Cowlick PLs. I'm in Nashville right now but will be heading back to the Bammership around noon and will get an accurate count of PLs / RLs . I'm somewhat dissapointed by this, Not sure what to think about it. I'll also check my chart from last year and I had them growing in a row 4' apart from Snags Pride PL on one side and Amazon Chocolate PL.
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Post by blane on Mar 5, 2011 8:01:40 GMT -5
I have started nearly 100 Cowlicks this past month and I can already see that I have a large percentage of RLs, I saved seed from all Cowlick PLs. I'm in Nashville right now but will be heading back to the Bammership around noon and will get an accurate count of PLs / RLs . I'm somewhat dissapointed by this, Not sure what to think about it. I'll also check my chart from last year and I had them growing in a row 4' apart from Snags Pride PL on one side and Amazon Chocolate PL. I want to hear more about this Bammer...keep us posted-
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Post by darthslater on Mar 5, 2011 8:01:59 GMT -5
I wonder if there is any difference in the taste of the RL compared to the PL Bammer.
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Post by blane on Mar 5, 2011 8:02:59 GMT -5
I wonder if there is any difference in the taste of the RL compared to the PL Bammer. We gona find that out too-
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bammer
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Post by bammer on Mar 5, 2011 11:16:03 GMT -5
I wonder if there is any difference in the taste of the RL compared to the PL Bammer. Camo claims the RL tasted better in this past years garden.
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bammer
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Post by bammer on Mar 7, 2011 19:25:39 GMT -5
I have started nearly 100 Cowlicks this past month and I can already see that I have a large percentage of RLs, I saved seed from all Cowlick PLs. I'm in Nashville right now but will be heading back to the Bammership around noon and will get an accurate count of PLs / RLs . I'm somewhat dissapointed by this, Not sure what to think about it. I'll also check my chart from last year and I had them growing in a row 4' apart from Snags Pride PL on one side and Amazon Chocolate PL. Alright! I'm a bit late and my math is off so here goes......... I have 56 Cowlicks started only 20 are PLs, 36 are RLs. I am very dissapointed, I could have taken 36 PLs and 20 RLs easier, But this sux. How would you explain this?
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Post by darthslater on Mar 7, 2011 19:28:58 GMT -5
Spud has a Bammer voodoo doll?
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jcm05
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Post by jcm05 on Mar 8, 2011 6:20:38 GMT -5
Or somewhat less likely mixed seed.
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bammer
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Post by bammer on Mar 9, 2011 22:03:53 GMT -5
My Spudakees and Barlow Japs faired Mucho better than the Cowlicks.
Spudakee 36 started = 35 PL - 1 RL
Barlow Jap 36 started = 36 PL
I feel much better about this now, Why did the Cowlicks go haywire?
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Post by darthslater on Mar 9, 2011 22:05:18 GMT -5
I always believed it was a crossed tomato in the first place.
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