Mortgage Lifter (Pale Leaf Strain)

[stratcat]

Here's a particularly nice specimen with yellow foliage sprawling across its neighbors on 29 September. I planted this in my friend's garden and she took a picture with her Blackberry. Great tasting pink tomato.



A blurry lengthwise shot-

[carolyn137]

Oct 1, 2010 0:38:52 GMT -5 stratcat said:

Here's a particularly nice specimen with yellow foliage sprawling across its neighbors on 29 September. I planted this in my friend's garden and she took a picture with her Blackberry. Great tasting pink tomato.



A blurry lengthwise shot-

It's called Mortgage Lifter (Mullens) b'c it was Charlotte Mullens who sent the seeds to Craig LeHoullier many years ago.

All is the same except for the lighter foliage.

Which brings up the question of strains, especially when talking about the various Mortgage Lifters out there.

To me a strain of a variety is one that has minor differences from the original but can still be IDed as the original.

But there are a whole lots of ML's out there that just have a person's name associated with the individual ones and to me they aren't strains at all, rather, just the name of the person who grew it and listed it in the SSE YEarbook, b'c that's where most of these originated from.

Some folks have grown out a lot of the various ML's in the same season and find little to no difference, and here I'm talking about the ones with names attached.

The only two ML's that I consider strains are this Mullens one with pale leaves and ML (Estler), the one that was said to have been developed before Radiator Charlie, aka Charlie Byles, developed his. The documantation for the Estler family being the first to develop what was called Mortgage Lifter is pretty good.

And there are those who have grown out almost all of the various Brandywine "strains" in the same season and found little difference, with few exceptions.

And more recently the same has been found for the so called black ones and Keith posted some allele associations with varieties that tend to support that contention and also the contention that Cherokee Purple is not as old as J.D. Green suggested when he gave the seeds to Craig LeHoullier, John's information from the lady who gave him the seeds.

I never thought the fad for the blacks would last this long. When I joined SSE there were but FIVE ones listed and now there's maybe close to 200.

Where there is demand the varieties will follow as I see it.

Several years ago a few of us suggested that the green when ripes might become the next fad and I see that happening. And again where there is demand the varieties will appear.

Do I sound cynical? Probably, but what is, is.

Carolyn

[jcm05]

I've only known it as the pale leaf strain also since that is what Mike at Victory has it listed as who got it directly from Craig L.

[carolyn137]

Oct 1, 2010 10:20:48 GMT -5 jcm05 said:

I've only known it as the pale leaf strain also since that is what Mike at Victory has it listed as who got it directly from Craig L.

John, Craig first listed it in the 1993 SSE YEarbook as follows:

Mortgage Lifter, Mullens: 74 days, indet, fruit similar to Halladay str. but of more variable size and darker green foliage, just as delicious, from C. Mullens, WV in 1991.

I don't know when it was first described as pale leaf, whether Craig just didn't mention it above or whether there was some kind of mutation in his gareden.

But it's been listed as Mortgage Lifter, Mullens, since Craig first listed it in 1993.

Only onw person lists the Mullens one in the 2010 Yearbook and that's Amy Goldman who listed many ML's in her book and she says nothing about pale leaves and says nothing more except it may be derived from the Radiator Charlie one, which all of them are except for the Estler one.

So let me ask Craig about it and get back to you here in this thread.

Right now, without my pouring over lots of back Yearbooks it looks to me like maybe the one Charlotte Mullens sent Craig mutated to that pale leaf form in his garden.

OK, problem solved when I just looked at the blurb at Victory Seeds and what he calls pale Leaf was a mutation or cross that did show up in his garden of what he initially listed as Mullens in the SSE YEarbook:

Mortgage Lifter (Pale Leaf Strain)
86 days, indeterminate — An unusual, pale, chartreuse colored foliage with standard 'Mortgage Lifter' fruit. In 1990, Craig LeHoullier received a strain of 'Mortgage Lifter' from Charlotte Mullens of West Virginia. A few years ago, this interesting variety showed up as a cross or mutation and seems to be quite stable. The fruits are large, pink, delicious flavored, and the plant maintains its unusual color all season. The picture on the left is a comparison of the color of a between a standard Mortgage Lifter' leaf and this strain.

Carolyn

[PVP]

Oct 1, 2010 8:57:58 GMT -5 carolyn137 said:

Where there is demand the varieties will follow as I see it.

Several years ago a few of us suggested that the green when ripes might become the next fad and I see that happening. And again where there is demand the varieties will appear.

Do I sound cynical? Probably, but what is, is.

Carolyn

I don't know if your implication is that the demand is being filled by renaming of existing Green When Ripes, but I can assure you that Green When Ripes do emerge from intentional and natural crosses on a quite regular basis lately.

2010 examples:

[Intentional Attempt at GWR] 2008 cross of Green Giant x Yellow Submarine > F1 seeds to Suze, she grew out her own F2s, found a clear skin yellow, saved F3 seeds > back to me. I grew F3 seeds and got a Green When Ripe ping pong in 2010.

[Happenstance GWR, could be reversion] 2009 seed acquired from Neil Lockart for Golden Cherokee > grew 2 plants in 2009, got one plant with clear skin, yellow fruit and no bicoloration > seeds to Ted C. in Germany > he grew one plant in 2010 that gave Green When Ripe fruit. I also grew 2 plants from 2009 clear yellow seed in 2010 and got one plant with Green When Ripe fruit that looks just like what Ted got.

[Happenstance GWR, obvious stray pollen] 2008 got seed for Purple Haze F2 from WildThyme from a tomato that was a 6 oz deep purple fruit > Grew one plant in 2009 that gave large 10 - 14 oz pink fruit. Saved seeds > Grew 2 plants in 2010, one gave clear skin yellow/pink bicolor and the other plant gave clear skin Green When Ripe/pink bicolor blush on blossom end and pink streaks inside.

Don't know what others are doing that may be arousing your cynicism, but I don't rename tomatoes. These are legitimate examples of GWR tomatoes simply appearing in the name of Nature.


pv

[carolyn137]

I don't know if your implication is that the demand is being filled by renaming of existing Green When Ripes, but I can assure you that Green When Ripes do emerge from intentional and natural crosses on a quite regular basis lately.

*****

No Bill I wasn't implying that ALL of the newer GWRipes were from renaming.

And yes, I do know of instances, as you do, where breeding for same occurs as well as chance happenstances, as you refer to them.

Green Doctors from the variety Dr. Carolyn is one of those happenstances.

I'm thinking of the several folks who have grown out a lot of so called blacks in the same season and find that they aren't all different.

I'm thinking of the list of alleles that Keith posted that were lumped into three groups, I think you remember that, and there were associations with varieties and alleles that impressed me, at least in terms of possible renaming. Crimson Black comes to mind.

And it's my opinion that if some folks grew out a whole bunch of known large fruited GWRipes that the same situation may apply there just as it has with the blacks.

As far as I know no specific allele associations are known for the various large GWRipes, but I'll be looking for it.

Carolyn