|
Post by blackthumb on May 10, 2011 21:34:01 GMT -5
Tangential much? Why does accepted practice and common sense turn into a conversation against "commercial greenhouses/commercial seedsman"? Heck, it's Obama's fault! I'm not saying we should rely on anyone but ourselves actually, blackthumb! (nice name BTW) Um, by following good plant hygiene, field cleaning, cover cropping, and seed cleaning we can avoid disease and stop trading/getting "bad" seed. WTH does this have to do with commercialization? My neighbors who may or may not follow the same protocol (same goes for seed saving - I've gotten crappy seeds many times before from other "home growers") - puts everyone in jeopardy. Is that not clear from my statements? Again, cleaning seeds is a euphemism for sterilization - are you seriously arguing this point with me? But whatever - I guess the finer points of the thread are lost on you - yes, people are saying there is no "right" and "wrong" way to cull, or to clean seed, or keep/scrap volunteers. Oh sorry, wrong terminology for you our science PhD - not clean but "sterilize" our seed. Have a magical day! Arbitration is bad hygiene. Good science is good hygiene. The fact is some of the practices that you are following like sheep, seem to be advancing and spreading disease. You’re the one that seems reluctant to sterilize seeds of pathogens. You’re the one that seems to be advocating importing seeds and plants that can spread, and worsen disease. You’re the one that is advocating the arbitrary policies that result in more people getting their seeds and plants trucked in from foreign sources that transmit diseases from other regions and grown in greenhouses that are more likely to harbor diseases like late blight over the winter. The policies you advocate increase the odds that all oospores will mix. You’re too common. Having sense is a rarity. Bloodletting was and accepted and common practice at one time; in most cases it did more harm than good. Just because it is accepted and common; doesn’t necessarily mean that it is sensible or entirely correct. The medical community scoffed at a lowly chemist (Louis Pasteur) who proposed that the source of most disease was pathogens. Paul Ehrlich was also scoffed at by the medical community. They were both threatened with having their credentials stripped, being sued and being imprisoned because they would not go along with what was arbitrary and common. Unlike you I don’t rely on magic, I rely on science.
|
|
surf4grrl
Tomato Gardener
Head Growerouter
Organic farmer
Posts: 99
|
Post by surf4grrl on May 11, 2011 6:12:22 GMT -5
Whoa, quoted for LOLZZ.
OK, let's deconstruct this shall we? Just a little.
Where do I say any of this? Please give me proof I said any of these things. Quite the cognitive leap there, Mr. Blackthumb.
HAHA - Again, another specious argument from you and cognitive leap.
I've quoted science, you've stated nothing but "I suspect" statements, which is a hypothesis. Do you know what that is?
Quote me your science.
Until then I'll have to suffer through some lame attacks from you.
|
|
|
Post by tucsontomato on May 11, 2011 23:39:43 GMT -5
I just wanted to add that I have noticed that, at least here in the Southwest, watering very deeply (4 hours+ on a soaker hose) only every 3-7 days is the best thing I have ever done to decrease my disease. I used to be scared not to water every day but now I am a believer! Apparently more shallow roots= less vigorous plants that are more susceptible to disease.
|
|
|
Post by turtleislander on Jun 26, 2011 7:52:15 GMT -5
"Fungicides can either be contact, translaminar or systemic. Contact fungicides are not taken up into the plant tissue, & only protect the plant where the spray is deposited; translaminar fungicides redistribute the fungicide from the upper, sprayed leaf surface to the lower, unsprayed surface; systemic fungicides are taken up & redistributed through the xylem vessels to the upper parts of the plant. New leaf growth is protected for a short period." I think the above pretty much explains the mode of action of different fungicides. To say a fungicide is bad because it's mode of action is systemic is a little premature. It's the chemical makeup that should worry you, not it's mode of action. Systemic pesticides are not labeled for use on tomatoesThat's a new one on me. I know for a fact Azoxystobin and Phosphorous Acid (Agri-Fos/Exel LG) are labeled for use on tomatoes and both their modes of action are Systemic! And I would eat tomatoes treated by those products before I would eat a tomato treated with Daconil which is a contact/protectant fungicide. Ami i never thought that a contact would be worse than a systemic...thank you for bringing this up. i still do have a strong concern, even though this is the case due to the majority of applications being from certain corporations who work with certain chemicals meaning that political decisions are affecting the movement of the culture of agriculture, so many people here (and i guess i can only speak for myself) are going to conflate their emotional, political, and chemical understanding of things like systemic chemicals. i dont want monsanto working with systemic, persistent chemicals, not to say all molecules that travel the vascular system of a plant to be inherently evil. bwhahaha! i dont want to tangent into politics. just wanted to explain something ive noticed about organic farmers when it comes to my own methods of control, they are simple and few. mostly i try to build soil with no tilling and heavy mulching to bury the soil borne populations and to create disease free fertile humus at the top keeping down soil splatter and movement. this also reduces the risks of other disease vectors keeping the roots cool and consistently moist, along with consistent nutrient breakdown by the biodiversity of a living soil. mycorrhizal fungi colonizing the roots of many crops has proven to increase disease and chemical tolerance. i also do not keep seed from mortally affected plants or varieties. during the 2009 blight deathfest, i let go the varieties most affected, the weakest lines of my best varieties have been culled, and since i have had no blight death. lets see how long it lasts this time till the next big wave, then i will have to cull again.
|
|
|
Post by DiggingDogFarm on Jul 4, 2011 14:25:15 GMT -5
Last year I heard allegations that there were some fungicides that could cure plants infected with late blight. I can’t remember where I read it, but I think it was a reputable source. Supposedly the plants will still be damaged, but supposedly there are some fungicides that will stop late blight in its tracks. I seem to remember looking up the alleged fungicides and they were extremely expensive and only seemed to be available at a commercial/industrial level. I was wondering if these allegations are true and if any of these alleged fungicides are available yet in the US to the home gardener in a translaminar or systemic form? If I recall correctly the fungicides were systemic. When I read your post I immediately thought of this little write-up at Fedco..... "Amy LeBlanc’s Successful Battle
Here’s a distillation. For more information, contact Amy at Tomato Lovers Paradise, amy@whitehillfarm.com.
We managed to miss the early round of blight as we grow all our own seedlings. However, it did arrive on the wind. Around July 18, I decided I was not going to lose my tomato crop. That meant buying two new hand-held sprayers and an NOP-approved copper fungicide formulation, Champ WG.
Available information was incomplete and conflicting. The most prevalent advice was “It’s terminal. Kill all your plants.” Instead I read all the references I could find about tomato diseases. The best information came from The Compendium of Tomato Diseases (Jones, Jones, Stall & Zitter, APS Press, ISBN 0-89054-120-5), from Cornell’s information site (see sidebar below) and from Dr. Bruce Watt at U. of Maine Plant Diagnostic Lab.
I monitored twice every day, and trained my workers to see the difference between early and late blights and to attack LB immediately and sytematically. We pruned extensively, clipping off every infected leaf and stem below every stem lesion, making sure the remaining pith was clear green. It’s important to take all infected material to the dump—not the compost pile. We followed each pruning with a copper spray (a total of five times at the recommended 5–10 day interval). The spray protected the fruit (which is damaged by surface spores rather than systemically). We harvested fruit as it began to ripen, washing with soap and water to remove the copper and spores, and it continued to ripen. We stayed at least one step ahead of the infecton and we had a fabulous tomato crop.
Many of the protocols recommended by experts are farm-sized solutions. Small-scale gardeners can attend our plants daily. Consistent observation and action will see us through most problems."www.fedcoseeds.com/seeds/late_blight.htm~Dig
|
|
surf4grrl
Tomato Gardener
Head Growerouter
Organic farmer
Posts: 99
|
Post by surf4grrl on Jul 5, 2011 3:33:52 GMT -5
That late blight info is cool. I use Champ in my aresenal and nothing freaks me out like late blight. However, in that article - she said she checked her field 2x daily. Champ has a 24 re-entry period. I have early blight - no biggie. I think we just got LB.
|
|