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Post by darthslater on Dec 8, 2010 4:23:17 GMT -5
No Pap, you can't argue with perfect logic, nicley spoken. Boy it would be nice to not have to string wire or twine for 5 or 6000 plants, even nicer for folks who live in apartments or dont have the growing space, everyone would be able to grow a few plants!!
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Post by GunnarSK on Dec 8, 2010 5:24:01 GMT -5
I supposed we were not to talk tomatoes in the outhouse, but evidently anything goes.
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tomc
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Post by tomc on Dec 8, 2010 5:53:46 GMT -5
TomC, are you in New Hampshire or S.E. Ohio? pv I was in NH, oh for like 40 years, other off topic health issues made a move nearer to kinder in SE OH, um nesisary. Gettin' old aint for sissies.
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tomc
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Post by tomc on Dec 8, 2010 6:02:20 GMT -5
I supposed we were not to talk tomatoes in the outhouse, but evidently anything goes. Gunnar, this is mostly gossip about tomatoes. Wish me luck with Bruce, I've got to get him back to growing corn ina kitchen garden, and out of plantation sized crops (that he cannot manage). Wish me luck.
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carolyn137
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Post by carolyn137 on Dec 8, 2010 8:09:29 GMT -5
Carolyn, I understand about segerating lines and stabilization. My point is, the longer someone holds on to something, the older the subject. I see no harm in distributing to people that have the capabillities to know the differencs at F5. And as bad as this sounds, I have heard many that only planted a couple plants, how do you figure that is showing all the genetic expressions? I grew One for keith and planted 100...holy crap!! You should have seen the stuff, some is posted in The Tomato Show and The Breeders Thread, and I am not done with this one yet nor will be in the next 5 years, you know this is a numbers game. Many working on that project just dont have the facillites to do it. Granted, not all, but alot. Iwas very interested in these and just got tired of waiting. Thats all I am saying. Darth Yes, some do have limited space but yes also that some are growing many more than one variety so you add up the number of total plants for a single F gen and that gives you a better idea. And one of the reasons that Craig solicited the help of Reinhard Kraft in Germany and Bill Minkey and Neil Lockhart and Glenn Drowns to do large growouts is b'c they do have the space. An old story is often a good story when the full story is told. And sometimes it does mean a wait for something anticipated, so I hope you'll be OK with that as others are b'c as I've oft said, actually my Swedish grandmother said: Patience is a virtue Find it if you can You'll find it in a woman But seldom in a man. QED. Carolyn
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Post by sunflowers on Dec 8, 2010 8:13:47 GMT -5
I grew several of the dwarf project varieties that were supposed to be "close" to release. F-6 to F-8 seeds I think. But of those I grew, many were not close to uniform yet. At least 1 of them had 3 different colors in what was supposed to be a brown.
I grew from 3 to 20 plants of the varieties I was sent. That was all the plants I got from the seeds sent to me. I agree that it is hard to see if they are uniform if you don't have a larger number of plants. But I think there isn't a whole lot of seed available for many of them, so samples get rather small when divided up.
I didn't do as well at keeping notes and keeping track of them as I had wanted to do, but from what I saw this year (my first year in the project) they need more work before release. The 1 that was good for me is Summertime Gold.
JMO, Carol
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PVP
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Post by PVP on Dec 8, 2010 8:53:16 GMT -5
Yes, I'm thinking Summertime Gold x KBX for more flavor, meatier fruit, more heat tolerance, slightly more resilient skin, all on a 5-foot vine.
pv
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Post by darthslater on Dec 8, 2010 9:46:12 GMT -5
Wow carolyn a swedish girl!! Hubba hubba....hehehe, Yeah Pap I think 5 foot is still quite a bit taller than I was expecting, dwarf to me would be closer to 3, I grew Red House Freestaanding last year and didn't need support, they only got to be 3 foot, tough little pitbull plants and the fruit was tasty, the only problem is that they are Red {Boring}. And hey doc, did you ever see the t shirt with the 2 vultures on it? The one remarks, "Patience my eye, I am going to go kill something". There are enough of us here at TTG, to do our own project, and I think we should. We have John who was working with alot of dwarves and Spud and Pap want to do it, now Spud will have the space again. I am sure we can scrape up some stock somewhere.....Also Carolyn you need to grow at least 60 plants to see all the expressions.
Darth
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PVP
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Post by PVP on Dec 8, 2010 9:54:58 GMT -5
Darth, when I said 5-foot vine, I meant in the F1 when crossing Summertime Gold x KBX ... a plant contained in a standard 5-foot tall concrete reinforcement wire (CRF) cage.
You want dwarf versions of the same? You get a huge pack of F2s and grow them out. Like what I sent you this year - F2 Tigerette x Cherokee Purple. Those F1 plants were "5-footers" and the Tigerette parent seldom goes over 18 - 20 inches tall. I see from your pictures you already found some stumpy little F2s from that cross!
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PVP
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Post by PVP on Dec 8, 2010 9:56:42 GMT -5
Oh man, this Starbucks decaf Verona is nice and bold!
pv
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Post by darthslater on Dec 8, 2010 10:35:53 GMT -5
Wait till i post the new pics Pap, boy those are beauties for sure!! Rev has his favorite also, he says his is better than yours...lol
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carolyn137
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Post by carolyn137 on Dec 8, 2010 11:31:02 GMT -5
Yes Darth, on the maternal side Swedish and German, almost all short and portly, and on my paternal side 100% English, all tall and lean. It's said that my Male named ancestors got that name in crossing from France to England and comes from mal d mer, seasickness. ;D Just an unconfirmed myth I'm sure. And the pre-fix mal usually means something bad, such as malcontent, maldistribution, etc. On a train from Nice to Italy once the customs man took one look at my passport and called for his fellow passport friends and kept saying mal, mal, and pointing at me and laughing. I'm used to it. You should see the spam e-mails I get b'c my e-mail address is cmale_____b'c years ago we didn't chose fancy em addresses. So what I look like is the result of hybrid vigor from both sides. ;D Because of my love of everything in nature and all things that grow I'm convinced that I'm descended from a Druid herbalist on the English side. I don't wanna discuss dwarfs right now. I think by this time we all know the problems of dealing with lots of growers for the Dwarf project in both the US and Australia and we all know what it takes to get a stable OP and we all know that it can take different F gens to get there depending on what the initial cross was and whether it was two OP's, or more, or an OP and an F1, etc., and whether genes are linked, or not So why don't we just applaud those who have been with the project from the get go and those who have joined later to help and just be glad when stable varieties will be available to everyone and it looks like that's going to be through commercial outlets and no, no money goes back to the dwarf project folks at all. No different than all the varieties I've sent to several places for the last 20 years, I get nada back and that wasn't even a consideration of mine, rather, it was helping make available some darn good heirloom varieties to the general public. If folks don't know about some great varieties, whether heirlooms or otherwise, they're missing out a lot. And we who read/post at online message sites are but a small fraction of the total tomato growing public. So if something is really good then make it known to many others and there are several ways of doing that. Carolyn
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PVP
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Post by PVP on Dec 8, 2010 13:34:10 GMT -5
Well, Darth and Papa Vic (as Hob Nob Seed Co.) are holding out for the BIG BUCKS! LOL! ... not
pv
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carolyn137
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Post by carolyn137 on Dec 8, 2010 14:05:24 GMT -5
Well, Darth and Papa Vic (as Hob Nob Seed Co.) are holding out for the BIG BUCKS! LOL! ... not pv PV, you I know much better than I currently know Darth and I can't tell you how many times you've already told me that you're independently wealthy, so flaunt it, don't hide it. I forgot to ask if I send you an application for a loan to have someone build some 3 ft tall raised beds on 10 of my 30 acres, as well as an adequate heated log cabin for a crew of two, would you pretty please consider lending me that money. If not, and I do understand, I'm going to have to go back to eating aged Halloween candy chocolate instead of what I prefer to eat. Oh, excuse me, there's the doorbell and it's Fedex Express, Chad, who is from?, oh OK, bring it in a put it on the counter to the left of the fridge and I'll take care of it in a few minutes. Ah me, it's the tur duck hen from Louisiana and the whole roasted pig from SC and the crab cakes from Chesepeake Bay Co and the Carrot Cake from Nieman Marcus and the whole half of wild salmon and the brownies from Dancing Deer and the lemon bars from Matthews 18___ house in CT and Cindy just brought the stuff I asked her to get from the Chinese place so there's the General Tso's, extra spicy, and the beef with garlic sauce, both with egg drop soup and the quart of chicken noodle soup as well. So you can see PV that I'm down to eating aged Halloween candy, turning the Monitor down to 60 F ambient temp which isn't good for us diabetics, making the wet food portions smaller for my two cat kids, turning off the lights on the Xmas tree after just one hour, and all that and more to show that I've just got to watch my monetary outflow more carefully so that you'll consider my loan application more seriously. Carolyn
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PVP
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Post by PVP on Dec 8, 2010 14:18:12 GMT -5
You keep eatin' all that salty, fat laden crap followed by highly sugared desserts, and we won't have to worry about financing any raised beds ... you'll be in the ER for an extended visit!
pv
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